Question of the Month: Chinese-made molds

I have seen many 'horror stories' from different countries - typically where the 'cheapest' mold maker (for that country) has been used.
You get what you pay for!
However, I don't believe local (Australian) toolmakers can compete anymore. The steel suppliers are stocking less but prices are higher. My local toolmaker tells me to source molds from overseas as he can't buy the steel for the price I can get a mold for.
However he is happy to maintain them. In fact this is his new 'business model'. He does this for many companies and has noted that the mold quality from China is getting better and better.
I have settled on a Taiwanese toolmaker (with his own mainland facility). The quality is as good or better than what I have had made in Australia. Tool designs are excellent and I get the opportunity to include my preferences. Delivery is faster. (Interesting to note that he says his China facility is 'a lot of work'!)
I have had molds with up to 21 sliding cores made and the quality/performance is great. (I do get cheaper quotes from other 'unknown' mold makers but in my opinion it is not worth the risk for only a few $$.)
Lloyd Joseph
SIPlas Pty Ltd

I am in the process of developing a detail mould tool specification, could anyone suggest a list of reference examples.

Thanks,
James

yes china have good mold. i throw a comment here. I am defining you to that i have stocks of Quotes if you visit it here Then i am telling you to most revolutionarybevent like new year and finding new new year quotes for 2012

10 years ago I built 3 molds that ended up boat anchors. For the last 4 years, we have sourced good toolmakers over in Asia.

To the point, you get what you pay for. If you go to a cheap Asian toolmaker, you will get a cheap tool. If you go to a more expensive toolmaker, you will get better results.

You must do your homework (typically a trip to evaluate the toolmaker and "inspect" their past and current work.

Tim Blake
G&F Industries

My biggest issues are communication and distance. I don't feel comfortable managing tool projects that I can see only after they are built.

We insourced the molding of moderate sized parts from a few of our troubled suppliers. Actually insourced China made parts (a North American molder having a Chinese extension). Long story short - the Chinese molds were constructed better and produced better parts than their North American made counterparts. The Chinese molder took better care of their Chines made tools vs. the North American supplier and the North American made tools and it shows in the parts made. I believe any region has good and bad mold makers - the trick is to find them. I also believe that regardless of where you go, the molder has to tell the mold maker what they want in the form of detailed mold specifications. The idea of sending part drawings to a mold maker and letting them have free reign of how the mold is constructed is absurd. It seems to me from some of the messages read that this happens more often than not with custom molders. The Chinese molder had very good mold specifications and mold documentation. Still looking for the mold designs and mold specifications from the North American molder.

I've seen a Chinese tool steel so soft that it got rolled over with a brass rod. All the cavities were hand worked, and the tool itself should've been covered under a lemon law.

Michael Ousley
GreenLeaf Industries

As part of the cost reduction plan , our company start to buy a Chinese molds, my experience: we already have 10 molds

1---Steel poor quality

2---Need to final adjust even if they run samples in china

3---Need more frecuently maintenance compare with other molds

4---Tool drawing not match with the real dimention of components

I have a few Chinese made tools here. One of the first set of three molds needed a slight adjustment so I took it to my local moldmaker. He made a point of metioning to me that it was very well made! The parts ran fine, although the parts never sold. (Not the mold's problem!) As a result I placed another mold with this company. It was for an 8 cavity hot runner tool for test tubes. Mirror finish etc. I've run over half million shots in the last year. Other than routine core water circuit cleaning, the mold runs very well. My local guy said they would have had to charge much more to do the same mold. Lately, I have noticed that this same company is charging a lot more than they used to for the same mold. All in all though, I would much sooner deal locally due to same day turnaround on problems, I can see progress on tools, they are very interested in getting it right and will adjust it immediately.
Bruce Borstmayer
Qualicase Ltd.
Calgary, Alberta

Only one experience so far, still going through it.

Mold to be built in China, first part samples sent to us had horrible parting-line mismatch. We informed them they needed to fix this, as well as several dimensional issues. After several weeks back and forth, someone here (read:management) decided to release the mold for shipment to us, despite numerous outstanding issues. The mold was not hardened at all (which was clearly stated on our prints and PO), and the cavities themselves, my nine-year-old daughter could have made better than they did. The radii in the cavities, these radii that were design features of the PLASTIC PART, had been made with a file - yes, you read that right. Gates were also edge gates when they were supposed to be tunnel gates. What a cluster. We never bothered to hang the mold, would have been a waste of time. (Is my sarcasm showing?)

Now we are being told that we complained so vehemently to the broker that the same mold shop is building us a new tool, no charge to us. WHAT?!@#?! I don't trust them to build us a new tool - I'm not confident it will be much better. I'd like to be surprised but am not holding my breath. Haven't seen samples yet. It is July now, original mold was to have been delivered Dec. 2005. Still waiting.

So, in a nutshell, not a good experience. I will temper this with the acknowledgement that it is only one experience, I know there are good cases out there along with the horror stories we have all heard and read about. I know there are good shops in all countries and bad ones too. I know of one local shop here that I don't consider a mold shop, I call them a chop shop due to the quality of their tools. (But my former employer didn't seem to mind finishing their work for us in our own tool repair and maintenance shop.)

I had a horrible experience in China (mainland)about 10 years ago with a package of non-functioning molds made in the USA. They were first generation molds that were cheaper than China quoted molds.I had to sneak out of the country, as I was caught between the Mold Maker (who I was trying to help out as a consultant) and the Chinese.

I have had the same experience with Chinese molds here, both mainland and Taiwanese.I haven't had to leave the country though!

I have also had Chinese molds that were crudely made, and were from a project inherited from China. Though crude and poorly made, it was obvious that they fulfilled their purpose, though requiring a lot of labor to run in light of the fact that they were for a packaging project that should have run automatic and at a high speed.These were eventually replaced by USA/Canada built hot runner molds that ran well, fast and automatically.

I have run other Chinese molds that ran well with minimum rework. The ones I see lately are getting better in quality,and the technology is getting better there all the time.

brent

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 07-10-06 AT 11:53 PM (GMT)[/font][p]I’ll take the point that there are good and bad mold makers everywhere. Originally going to China was a joke. There are still some horror stories only because they cannot/will not abide by AMBA or SPI custom practices. Why should they? They’re not within USA jurisdiction and you can’t sue them. If you are going to mold in China, a Chinese mold builder is a good bet. While the mold builders are getting better their prices are going up but their common failure is their inability to manufacture tool steel of the quality we’re used to.

Besides not following US trade practices these morons are phishing – getting my e-mail address somewhere then SPAMMING me about three times a week almost like the porn sites. While I believe they know about permission based Opt-In lists, I don't think they don’t give a damn one way or another about our laws.

This is not a level playing field. If the Chinese mold builder’s are still on their quest to drive the US mold builders out of business, they’re doing a good job. The only thing US mold builders want is a level playing field. It doesn’t look like we’re going to get it until enough customers get burned sufficiently to see the savings they get on a tool build isn’t offset by premature wear out, bad delivery and poor quality on high precision parts.

Bill Tobin
WJT Associates

I have seen several mold builds go sour, both American and foreign. In my opinion; the foreign tools have a higher percentage of failure and quality problems.

Purchased a mold from a company (Top Fit Mould). The company came highly recommended from an old fella who claimes to be a mold maker. However, this project was above the complexity of a poker chip or battery box. A three-plate mold with dual-stage ejector/stripper for under-cut stripping on the core. The mis-match on the cores was very, very bad. Tool drawings didn't match tool steel. My favorite was the parting-line that didn't open far enough to expose the runner drops. Top Fit also wanted more money to texture the mold, as they couldn't even replicate a SPI D-3 finish. The delivery, for a mold that didn't work, was also very late. Cost of Poor quality exceed the purchase price of the mold.

Pre the request of a program manager, a job was placed in China. This product was very complicated and the PM was disturbed at the +150K US mold price. We sent the Chinesse $5k. Got the check back about three months later with an appolagetic letter.

I have also seen that the Chinesse are getting much better, and the prices are getting higher. I suspect that the government is training people similar to how the U.S. used to train every child that attended public school. Its a shame that we have taken technical education (shop classes) out of our public education programs.

Thank You,
Dan Dykema
L.W. Reinhold Plastics
323-753-4251